Lowest Point in your Packer Fandom?

HeartyHops said:
Hardly. It's kind of odd that you see things in terms of prostitution?

The military has an absolute right to spend their recruiting money however they wish.

Does anyone honestly believe that not only the Packers but most teams did so because of the money?

Wow. That's sad.
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Hardly? This is a tough issue to speak to because now everyone knows it was done for money and it's very easy to say you knew it was done for money when nobody knew it was done for money prior to the story. I guess that is key here. My thought is nobody here or most anywhere knew the military displays were done because the Packers received money to do them. Speaking for me, the thought never crossed my mind...ever. I thought it was something our org felt was honoring of our armed forces personnel present and past and I came to find out it was just a "commercial".

Does someone pay the Packers to sing the national anthem, or if they don't, would the Packers not sing the anthem if not for the compensation? It's about motive. I guess I'm just weird about this due to my wiring. I love the quote... What you do matters, but why you do it matters more. Applying that to what our org has done leaves me pretty disappointed and using a prostitution analogy was an effective way of communicating my disappointment.
 
Counter said:
Hardly? This is a tough issue to speak to because now everyone knows it was done for money and it's very easy to say you knew it was done for money when nobody knew it was done for money prior to the story. I guess that is key here. My thought is nobody here or most anywhere knew the military displays were done because the Packers received money to do them. Speaking for me, the thought never crossed my mind...ever. I thought it was something our org felt was honoring of our armed forces personnel present and past and I came to find out it was just a "commercial".

Does someone pay the Packers to sing the national anthem, or if they don't, would the Packers not sing the anthem if not for the compensation? It's about motive. I guess I'm just weird about this due to my wiring. I love the quote... What you do matters, but why you do it matters more. Applying that to what our org has done leaves me pretty disappointed and using a prostitution analogy was an effective way of communicating my disappointment.
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I guess I just don't see the big issue here. Then Guard paid a minimal fee to support recruiting WEL L below market value , and the club partnered with the Guard to support the troops. No issues. It's no different than a brand like Pepsi partnering with a team to support underprivileged youth. Sponsor pays, team partners both get positive PR. Actually I applaud the team for basically giving away this deal @ $50,000. But that said I thought it was laughable that the team said the Guard paid full price. Yeah right
 
Mark87 said:
Counter it is what is... kind of slipping into a game of DHH( here it seems.
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I guess...but what are we going to talk about? :) I would say in response to packinatl's reply that with Pepsi we know it's an advertisement. I don't think anyone here thought the patriotic displays had a thing to do with advertising. That is the issue and it seems to slide out of the response here. Taking money to advertise for the military is just fine and is no big deal when the people who view the advertisement are aware that's what it is and not thinking the org is doing something out of the goodness of their hearts because they care about the armed forces when they're only doing it for money.
 
Counter said:
I guess...but what are we going to talk about? :) I would say in response to packinatl's reply that with Pepsi we know it's an advertisement. I don't think anyone here thought the patriotic displays had a thing to do with advertising. That is the issue and it seems to slide out of the response here. Taking money to advertise for the military is just fine and is no big deal when the people who view the advertisement are aware that's what it is and not thinking the org is doing something out of the goodness of their hearts because they care about the armed forces when they're only doing it for money.
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Because it was not an ad. It was a fee to support recruiting. The event was part of that deal. GB was not the only team to do this and I give them credit for basically giving it away
 
Counter said:
I guess...but what are we going to talk about? :) I would say in response to packinatl's reply that with Pepsi we know it's an advertisement. I don't think anyone here thought the patriotic displays had a thing to do with advertising. That is the issue and it seems to slide out of the response here. Taking money to advertise for the military is just fine and is no big deal when the people who view the advertisement are aware that's what it is and not thinking the org is doing something out of the goodness of their hearts because they care about the armed forces when they're only doing it for money.
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I would say you are naive if you think any organization is doing things from the goodness of their heart... it's a business with a bottom line. Packers are no different than any other. Those are the cold hard facts
 
Counter, you make some great points as have many throughout the thread. I better understand where you, and others, are coming from and,respect that very much. You've done a good job conveying your sentiments and I can now see your point of view. It sucks when we think we have been hoodwinked by someone we care about. No different in this situation. Lots of good perspective offered in this thread.
 
Half Empty said:
Since the thread is still running, despite the question of being a Packers football topic, I'll ask here instead of a PM. Regarding the first paragraph, are you beyond fed up with the "honor" part, the "vets" part, or the "hoopla", and what determines the "hyper" part of the ceremonies?
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I'm not going to be able to give you a detailed answer without getting further into politics than I'm willing to get. Let's just say I think the extreme patriotic fervor that's built up in this country over the last several years (moreso than at any time since World War II) has been mostly created and perpetuated by our political leaders to keep people from asking uncomfortable questions about the wars that we can't seem to get ourselves out of. I think it's artificial, disingenuous, and disturbingly over the top. And I'm afraid that's as far as I'm going to go in a football thread.



Half Empty said:
Does the second paragraph refer at all to the patriotic shows when you were growing up (and when was that?), in which case who paid for what then, or what else is it that's ruining the game for you?
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No. I'm referring to the team taking money for staging the tribute, and then pretending that they were doing it for free in order to maximize the PR value. I suspect they did it partly because they knew they'd get away with it, because the Pentagon was keeping it quiet. I find that pretty dishonorable, and quite frankly an insult to the troops it pretends to honor - because they're pretending to honor them out of the goodness of their hearts, when in fact they were secretly taking money for doing it. So the question becomes, did they really even mean it at all?

To me, it's another example of the greed that's taken over the game. The league generates north of $9 billion a year in revenue (which is more than the GDP of some countries), and they still do everything they can to squeeze every possible drop out of every stone they can dig up. I'm embarrassed that my team would be a part of this deception.


Half Empty said:
Tried not to, but I also can't help asking if you (or someone close to you) ever served and if you think it's inappropriate to wave the flag in appreciation for what we have.
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Almost every male member (and some female members) of my father's side of the family has served, and continues to serve. going back to my grandfather who served in WWI (yes, I; he married very late). 4 years after immigrating here from Germany, he joined the American Army to go back home and fight other Germans, because to him that was the right thing to do. He enlisted as a private soldier, was a sergeant by the time he shipped over, and came home with a battlefield commission as a captain. I still have his papers; he was very proud of what he did in the war, even though most of his immediate family never spoke to him again. This country has meant a great deal to many members of my family, going back to the very first of us.

And no, I can't think of any reason it it could ever be "inappropriate" to wave a flag. Seems like a strange question; maybe I just don't understand it.
 
Frozen Tundra said:
I'm not going to be able to give you a detailed answer without getting further into politics than I'm willing to get. Let's just say I think the extreme patriotic fervor that's built up in this country over the last several years (moreso than at any time since World War II) has been mostly created and perpetuated by our political leaders to keep people from asking uncomfortable questions about the wars that we can't seem to get ourselves out of. My question that you address at the end of the post was asked prior to the preceding explanation, and I equated "Personally, I am way beyond fed up with all this "let's honor the vets" hoopla (and all the hyper-patriotic ceremonies at every imaginable public gathering these days)" in the original post to not wanting to see either vets honored or flags waved.

To me, it's another example of the greed that's taken over the game. The league generates north of $9 billion a year in revenue (which is more than the GDP of some countries), and they still do everything they can to squeeze every possible drop out of every stone they can dig up. I'm embarrassed that my team would be a part of this deception. You'll never get an argument from me about the greed of the owners, players, agents, commish, et. al. Every time I see a post along the lines of "that clown has been terrible since he came into the league and shouldn't get more than $4 million next year", I start to vomit. I realize by watching when the game is on free TV that I'm still peripherally contributing, but I never make an actual out-of-pocket donation to the coffers through pay TV, or anything with the logo.



Almost every male member (and some female members) of my father's side of the family has served, and continues to serve. going back to my grandfather who served in WWI (yes, I; he married very late). 4 years after immigrating here from Germany, he joined the American Army to go back home and fight other Germans, because to him that was the right thing to do. He enlisted as a private soldier, was a sergeant by the time he shipped over, and came home with a battlefield commission as a captain. I still have his papers; he was very proud of what he did in the war, even though most of his immediate family never spoke to him again. This country has meant a great deal to many members of my family, going back to the very first of us.

And no, I can't think of any reason it it could ever be "inappropriate" to wave a flag. Seems like a strange question; maybe I just don't understand it. Addressed above.
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I just don't see where the team pretended it was for free. What did I miss. I'll say it one more time. The fee, sponsorship whatever you want to call it was for Guard recruiting efforts. Yes the event was part of that deal but it's not like the team "took" money.
 
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