Very simple MM was handed a team with the ground work laid out for him and Holmgren was not. Add in that Holmgren was a much better play caller then MM seems to be. Edge Holmgren all day long.
Holmgren Or McCarthy ??
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Very simple MM was handed a team with the ground work laid out for him and Holmgren was not. Add in that Holmgren was a much better play caller then MM seems to be. Edge Holmgren all day long.
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Didn't Holmgren start with the Pack in '92, and the cap started in '94? If so, Holmy was pretty much subject to it, and perhaps even moreso, since nobody knew how it was going to work. Besides, wouldn't that be more a factor of Wolf vs TT than Holmy vs MM?
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Yes it is. I just think a lot of us are not giving McCarthy his due. Holmgren was probably the better HC but not by the margin some are giving him. I submit Holmgren had more talented rosters than McCarthy had mainly because Wolf added veteran FAs where TT's approach to building rosters is mainly thru the draft. The change in the salary cap was one of the reasons Wolf retired.
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I don't think anyone is taking a thing away from MM. The question was who do YOU think is the better coach. So far majority feels it's Holmgren. Frankly we just don't gush sweet nothings at MM like others do. I think he's a fine coach but personally he's 4th on my list of Packer HC behind Lombardi, Lambeau and Holmgren but that's just my viewpoint on it.
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Holmgren was transformational in a way that MM never had to be and probably couldn't be. He was responsible for a full blown culture change. He had to deal with a veteran roster and pulled off perhaps the greatest reclamation project in NFL history. Beyond that, he's proven his coaching prowess with other teams.
He was perfect for his time and place, but MM has been as well. McCarthy came to the Packers in an era of offensive explosion. Rule changes benefit all teams the same, but MM has coached, schemed, play-called and/or otherwise coordinated 2 of the top five most efficient/potent offenses in the history of the league (2014 and 2011). Holmgren rightly receives credit for corralling a young, wild Brett Favre and helping him reach his enormous potential, but McCarthy was tasked with corralling an older superstar Brett Favre who seemed to have become used to not being coached and held accountable. And THEN he had to deal with the transition from his HOF QB to another talented QB, all the while maintaining control of the team and not allowing the pressure to derail Rodgers' career before it really got going.
Holmgren came in with a ton of fanfare and high expectations and because he delivered on those expectations, it's easy for fans to sing his praises. Sometimes I think McCarthy came in with such low expectations that people are reluctant to see just how much he's shattered them.
He was perfect for his time and place, but MM has been as well. McCarthy came to the Packers in an era of offensive explosion. Rule changes benefit all teams the same, but MM has coached, schemed, play-called and/or otherwise coordinated 2 of the top five most efficient/potent offenses in the history of the league (2014 and 2011). Holmgren rightly receives credit for corralling a young, wild Brett Favre and helping him reach his enormous potential, but McCarthy was tasked with corralling an older superstar Brett Favre who seemed to have become used to not being coached and held accountable. And THEN he had to deal with the transition from his HOF QB to another talented QB, all the while maintaining control of the team and not allowing the pressure to derail Rodgers' career before it really got going.
Holmgren came in with a ton of fanfare and high expectations and because he delivered on those expectations, it's easy for fans to sing his praises. Sometimes I think McCarthy came in with such low expectations that people are reluctant to see just how much he's shattered them.
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Holmgren was transformational in a way that MM never had to be and probably couldn't be. He was responsible for a full blown culture change. He had to deal with a veteran roster and pulled off perhaps the greatest reclamation project in NFL history. Beyond that, he's proven his coaching prowess with other teams.
He was perfect for his time and place, but MM has been as well. McCarthy came to the Packers in an era of offensive explosion. Rule changes benefit all teams the same, but MM has coached, schemed, play-called and/or otherwise coordinated 2 of the top five most efficient/potent offenses in the history of the league (2014 and 2011). Holmgren rightly receives credit for corralling a young, wild Brett Favre and helping him reach his enormous potential, but McCarthy was tasked with corralling an older superstar Brett Favre who seemed to have become used to not being coached and held accountable. And THEN he had to deal with the transition from his HOF QB to another talented QB, all the while maintaining control of the team and not allowing the pressure to derail Rodgers' career before it really got going.
Holmgren came in with a ton of fanfare and high expectations and because he delivered on those expectations, it's easy for fans to sing his praises. Sometimes I think McCarthy came in with such low expectations that people are reluctant to see just how much he's shattered them.
Thanks for stating this case much better than I did. ch(
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For the record, and this may make no sense at all, if I had to make a list of best NFL coaches, I would put Mike Holmgren MUCH higher than Mike McCarthy. But if I had to make a list of best Packers coaches, I would put the two as 3a and 3b.
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McCarthy may have the best overall record of the Mike’s but he isn’t the better coach. Not yet. How he handled Matt Flynn last year by never waving the white flag when Aaron Rodgers was sidelined was impressive.
But it was Holmgren’s bluntness that not only won him Favre’s respect but Holmgren was able to take the quarterback’s talent to another level. It may seem impossible with a perfectionist like Rodgers, but McCarthy needs to find that extra something that is going to squeeze even more out of his future Hall of Famer.
There’s also one more thing that McCarthy has to master: He has to stop outthinking himself. He must stop trying to prove to people that he is the smartest offensive mind on the field. I don’t have a problem with him kicking an onside kick at New Orleans in a game that clearly turned into a scoring circus. But I do question his rationale when he splits Julius Peppers out wide on second and goal from the 3.
But it was Holmgren’s bluntness that not only won him Favre’s respect but Holmgren was able to take the quarterback’s talent to another level. It may seem impossible with a perfectionist like Rodgers, but McCarthy needs to find that extra something that is going to squeeze even more out of his future Hall of Famer.
There’s also one more thing that McCarthy has to master: He has to stop outthinking himself. He must stop trying to prove to people that he is the smartest offensive mind on the field. I don’t have a problem with him kicking an onside kick at New Orleans in a game that clearly turned into a scoring circus. But I do question his rationale when he splits Julius Peppers out wide on second and goal from the 3.
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Of course we have to remember it was McCarthy who got Favre to play like he did in 2007 after Brett's play declined after Holmgren left.
I don't think McCarthy was responsible for placing Peppers out wide. Until this year he kinda let Capers run the show on that side of the ball. I think having MM not call the plays and be involved with the entire team on game day will make a big difference this year.
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To be fair, if you went back and watched every regular season game coached by Mike Holmgren I'm sure you could find similar bonehead calls that didn't work.