The Numbers-GB vs MN

[Budman]

Demovsky has a pretty good article covering some of the numbers from the game Sunday night. Is predictable fair and accurate?

LINK

 

[Mark87]

Ok took the time over the last 48 hrs to poll 3 FB coach's I know about the GB/MN game and Green bay in general.

Coach A is a current varsity hs HC in central WI, he was a DC for 15 yrs before that and has 23 yrs coaching experience.

Coach B is a current HS asst coach/OC and has had coordinator jobs in D3 football and was a position coach in D2. 21 yrs coaching experience.

Coach C is currently the offensive coordinator/QB coach in a D1 football program. Former HS HC who won 3 state titles and has sent 10 HS QB on college scholarships. 31 yrs coaching experience. Coach C also played DB in an SEC program in college.

I sent all 3 a borrowed NFL rewind log in and they graciously looked at the first half of Sunday nights game. Coach A watched the whole thing already but reviewed it.

Note Coach B/C are not Packer fans and have no dog in the fight.


Common thoughts from all 3 coach's were that GB was in a set game plan and that they did not adapt to what MN was doing once they adjusted.

Coach C thought that Rodgers was flustered by pressure and started to press once that happened. Interesting enough he mentioned that Aaron's foot work is off rolling left and it creates a hitch in his throw ?

Coach A/B/C all agree GB CB were playing too loose in zone and that some of Capers blitz's were predictable.

Coach A had some very unnice words regarding GB run blocking.

I Flat out asked Coach C what he thought of MM scheme and play calling. He said schematically it's fine however it seems like GB is trying to use the same formation multiple ways to achieve things. Example twins right flanker left off set I etc and then flipping it to twins right/flanker left etc. He said it seems like it's watered down or simplified which is what you do in a lot of no huddle.
However the caveat is it can be much easier for a DC to adjust his defense quicker by doing that.


Coach A mentioned that the short passing game and screens were there for the taking and can't understand why you wouldn't do that.

Overall all 3 coach's were not impressed with GB offense and all 3 thought the defense played well enough to win with the exception of the 2 starting CB.

I didn't get as in depth as I wanted because all 3 are busy with practice and in season. But the overall consensus wasn't one of hope and promise.

Just thought that getting perspective from 3 guys who are seeing a ton of FB on the field right now would be interesting.

 

[Budman]

That's an awesome job Mark. Thanks for taking time to do that. Very good insights. Maybe time to go away from no huddle for a bit?

 

[Terranimal]

Great job Mark! Thanks to Bud also for the link!

Through how many years McCarthy has been HC find it disturbing that same bone of contention hasn't changed and he hasn't grown or adapted when it comes to changing game plans and half time adjustments.

Seems to me that either MM has an ego blinding him or else his imagination nonnplay calling has hit a wall. With out Rodgers playing at MVP level and playing more towards average, this is being exposed and not covered up or bailed out.

Furthermore also seems MM has lost touch of playing to his players' strengths. Example is Lacy. Lacy does better behind a FB more so then as one back set. He has Receivers in his arsenal that were made for short, intermediate routes and crossing routes/ screens yet seems to prefer old AFL style aka Chargers/ Raiders/ Steelers of living and dying by the deep ball verses more of some version of a WCO.

And if we as fans are tired of hearing the same old message from MM in pressers, don't think it's a reach to think the vet players are too on a coaching/ play calling level.

As for Rodgers don't know exactly what is going on there. We all have speculated different things, but ultimately none of us know for sure but what we all do know is this not the MVP Rodgers for whatever the reason(s)

 

[TW]

Ok took the time over the last 48 hrs to poll 3 FB coach's I know about the GB/MN game and Green bay in general.

Coach A is a current varsity hs HC in central WI, he was a DC for 15 yrs before that and has 23 yrs coaching experience.

Coach B is a current HS asst coach/OC and has had coordinator jobs in D3 football and was a position coach in D2. 21 yrs coaching experience.

Coach C is currently the offensive coordinator/QB coach in a D1 football program. Former HS HC who won 3 state titles and has sent 10 HS QB on college scholarships. 31 yrs coaching experience. Coach C also played DB in an SEC program in college.

I sent all 3 a borrowed NFL rewind log in and they graciously looked at the first half of Sunday nights game. Coach A watched the whole thing already but reviewed it.

Note Coach B/C are not Packer fans and have no dog in the fight.


Common thoughts from all 3 coach's were that GB was in a set game plan and that they did not adapt to what MN was doing once they adjusted.

Coach C thought that Rodgers was flustered by pressure and started to press once that happened. Interesting enough he mentioned that Aaron's foot work is off rolling left and it creates a hitch in his throw ?

Coach A/B/C all agree GB CB were playing too loose in zone and that some of Capers blitz's were predictable.

Coach A had some very unnice words regarding GB run blocking.

I Flat out asked Coach C what he thought of MM scheme and play calling. He said schematically it's fine however it seems like GB is trying to use the same formation multiple ways to achieve things. Example twins right flanker left off set I etc and then flipping it to twins right/flanker left etc. He said it seems like it's watered down or simplified which is what you do in a lot of no huddle.
However the caveat is it can be much easier for a DC to adjust his defense quicker by doing that.


Coach A mentioned that the short passing game and screens were there for the taking and can't understand why you wouldn't do that.

Overall all 3 coach's were not impressed with GB offense and all 3 thought the defense played well enough to win with the exception of the 2 starting CB.

I didn't as in depth as I wanted because all 3 are busy with practice and in season. But the overall consensus wasn't one of hope and promise.

Just thought getting 3 guys who are seeing a ton of FB on the field right now would be interesting.

Couldn't agree more. Excellent research Mark. Another thing was the indecisiveness of McCarthy in getting plays in to Rodgers. He'd make the call but it didn't match the player personnel on the field, and ate up a lot of pre snap clock so he couldn't use motion and make reads like he should have been able to do.

 

[Budman]

Through how many years McCarthy has been HC find it disturbing that same bone of contention hasn't changed and he hasn't grown or adapted when it comes to changing game plans and half time adjustments.

Seems to me that either MM has an ego blinding him or else his imagination nonnplay calling has hit a wall. With out Rodgers playing at MVP level and playing more towards average, this is being exposed and not covered up or bailed out.

Furthermore also seems MM has lost touch of playing to his players' strengths. Example is Lacy. Lacy does better behind a FB more so then as one back set. He has Receivers in his arsenal that were made for short, intermediate routes and crossing routes/ screens yet seems to prefer old AFL style aka Chargers/ Raiders/ Steelers of living and dying by the deep ball verses more of some version of a WCO.

And if we as fans are tired of hearing the same old message from MM in pressers, don't think it's a reach to think the vet players are too on a coaching/ play calling level.

As for Rodgers don't know exactly what is going on there. We all have speculated different things, but ultimately none of us know for sure but what we all do know is this not the MVP Rodgers for whatever the reason(s)

Which is very odd Terranimal. When MM got here, all the players loved him and one of his strengths was that he was pretty good at using multiple personnel packages. He's somehow lost touch with this and is enamored, for whatever reason, with the no huddle offense. He just doesn't want to veer away from it.

 

[TW]

Success = Unity

You can still be successful, but if you fail to make expectations, unity is disrupted. Everyone involved has their own personal view as to "why" success has eroded. For a while, you can blame it on things like injuries. That works well until you find out that you can win it all, even with the injuries, like the Packers did. Then you have years where you know you should have won it all, but didn't.

Finger pointing starts. It has in Green Bay. When it starts, the party's over. The reason? That team unity is like tooth paste. They're in it together. But, when it's out of the tube, no matter how hard you try, there's going to be a mess if you try putting it back in the tube.

This whole thing didn't start this year. It has been a slow erosion that's been coming over the last three years. Little comments made by Rodgers in radio interviews, or on TV. McCarthy pretty much always finding a way to blame the players for everything that happens by saying; "Execution." Offensive linemen miffed by the execution statement when they felt the play calling and diversity wasn't there, not execution. Linebackers being blamed for "not covering guys" that no linebackers in the NFL could cover. Little things. Scapegoats.

Eventually it implodes. The Sitton incident was without doubt the beginning of the end. It's now just a matter of time before players end up playing with less intensity, and the in-fighting becomes an issue that drives them down even further.

I hate to be doom and gloom, but in all honesty, I've seen this happen so often, on so many teams, in so many sports, and can't put on rose colored glasses and look past all the symptoms of the end of what should have been a dynasty.

As fans, if this is acceptable, we could end up having another run through an era like the 70s and 80s. It wasn't pretty.

 

[Terranimal]

Depends TW. If team cuts bait, the sooner MM at least and IMO TT move on the less the damage and shorter the renbuild. And say the worst, AR gone in 2 years but a new QB like Russel Wilson ( good QB/ cheap cap #) could be retooled quickly like Seattle.....of course this is the half full glass lot and odds are not the reality......I too fearna long re build and what u posted.

 

[Dubz41]

Well, I've always been a fighter so I usually don't take part in doom or gloom. When things look the worst is the opportunity to create hope. Last time I heard reactions like this was a couple years ago, which prompted the infamous R-E-L-A-X remark. The situation is different, circumstances have changed, but again I see (without the special glasses coming out) an opportunity. TW- you're right, success=unity. There is another axiom that holds true, especially in the NFL: Winning cures everything. So with that thought.....
We have a very good chance to win this week at home against a very mediocre Lions club. That leaves us at 2-1 heading into the bye week.
Three more home games follow; Giants, Cowboys and Bears. Very winnable games IF we get our crap together. That would leave us at 5-1 with the Falcons, Colts and Titans up next. Those three don't scare anybody, but it's the NFL and you have to show up to play every week. Not wearing green and gold glasses, but IF our Coach and QB start taking what the opponents give us? I think we might be okay. Which leaves me with the last axiom that is very appropriate for this year: It ain't what you got- It's how you use it.

 

[CaptainD]

Must read ... that goes double for the crowd. Green Bay Packers offense flawed by design

Mark your coach was right.

The number aren’t kind. Rodgers was ranked 17th in DYAR in 2015. He has now gone 15 games without a passer rating over 100 and has averaged under 7-yards per pass attempt in 12 of his last 14 games. The Green Bay offense as a whole has been equally inept; it currently ranks 21st in explosive plays, 29th in yards per game and 30th in yards per play. All of this comes after a season in which they finished 21st in weighted offensive DVOA and 28th in yards per play.

The Packers run an off-script, non-rhythmic offense. They utilize isolation routes and spread formations. They anticipate their players winning 1-on-1 matchups or Rodgers putting the ball where defenders can’t reach it. His trademark back-shoulder connection to Jordy Nelson is just one example.
The issues come when receivers cannot separate from man coverage. Then, each receiver is running an independent route and no one is getting open. In timing offenses, receiver’s routes are all designed to work in conjunction with one another, attempting to get players open through design, rather than winning 1-on-1 matchups.