Why the Packers will fail in 2017

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packer Football' started by TW, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Half Empty

    Half Empty Member

    +461 / 1
    Heck, this is no fun - hard to get fired up over a reasoned response. :) My counterpoint was primarily aimed at the "in TT we trust" crowd who (maybe not so much here, but certainly on other forums) will tolerate no criticism. Certainly, he (and MM) have provided us with very good teams and seasons, and therein lies the rub - expectations. From where I sit, they're a victim of their own success. In virtually everything we experience, but it economic status, parenting, or even sports, we tend to expect that we'll maintain our level of success, and move up from there. I often make the point that I was not nearly as down in the dumps during the Gory Years, as many point to when the current team is criticized, because I knew, going in, that they weren't going to do much. Hence, the overall record didn't mean much, every win was a joy, especially those in which we beat a hated rival or kept a top-rated team out of the playoffs.

    And, of course, there are many factors at work on anything from a particular play to a season. The 2014 debacle certainly can't be put on TT, as it was the same 53 guys in the last five minutes that he'd provided in the first 55. On the other hand, while injuries are pointed to, ad nauseum, as the reason for many of the team's failures, TT's inability to provide quality depth can certainly be considered, as can the rotating "position of concern" that seems to take forever to get fixed - safety, LB, CB, etc.

    One last point, about the Pats "dark period". Perhaps it's just semantics, and if it refers to their lack of SB wins, it certainly applies - all I'd ask is that you aren't one of those who uses the Packers run of playoff appearances alone as justification for the TT/MM adulation. Following their early 2000's run, the Pats were in the playoffs 11 of 12 years, missing only in the year that Cassel was running team (and finished with an 11-5 record).

    Well, maybe it doesn't have to be a verbal slugfest to generate a lot of discussion - I'm pretty sure this is one of my longest posts. :)
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  2. mzahn

    mzahn Member

    +41 / 1
    I just have little confidence in the coaching staff. I think the play calling on both sides of the ball is predictable. I know some excuses can be made for Capers for how the defense has performed but his track record with other teams shows it isn't much of a surprise. Also we don't seem to know how to finish a game. Unless it is my imagination it seems like when we have a lead in the 4th qtr, no matter how much time is left on the clock, we go ultra conservative and usually seem to let the other team back in the game. Not a big fan of belichick but he keeps the foot down until the final whistle. Mt 2 cents.
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  3. Dubz41

    Dubz41 Member

    +1,025 / 6
    I'm going to echo some of what mzahn just mentioned. I've always been a draft fan, so I lean toward giving TT a pat on the back, I admit that. People always like to complain, but complaining without having solutions or reasons is whining. So here is my complaint: I think you can make an argument that it is the coaching staff. That players come in and (sometimes) contribute early in their careers only to tail off quickly. That we actually do have talent, but they don't always develop it in a consistent manner. You can point to exceptions, but it seems (other than ARod) most plateau out below expectations. This has been the norm for the last seven years or so. Yes, we make the playoffs, but somehow some way we fudge it up. Last year left me with a different feeling. Seems like it might of actually been one of the coaching staff's better performances just getting that train wreck of a defense into the NFCCG. The Dallas game left me euphoric enough to ignore the sad performance a week later.

    So now we head into this season. It's easy to sit back and poke holes and complain, but our complaints have changed. Instead of wondering who is going to start and the holes we have.....we are hearing complaints about the 'back ups'. The biggest stories and worries this year revolve around the back up OL, the back up OLBs. Admit it, it is a fundamental change. Even TT has changed his MO and went out and signed veteran free agents to plug up depth deficiencies. He's also spent his valuable draft choices on the defensive side. I believe that the hottest seat in Green Bay belongs to Dom Capers. He has been supplied with the ingredients for success. Looking at the defense I see #1 picks at DL, OLB (2), CB and safety with plenty of second and third rounders sprinkled in. DC has no excuses this year. Neither does MM. With TT showing us a new wrinkle in his process to build the roster, he has put the pressure on the coaches. I read some of the posts and wonder if they even notice the fundamental change that hit the Packers this year? Is ARod's comments about "All in" the catalyst? Hope so, but then it shouldn't have to come from a player to ignite the change.

    Anyway, what I'd like to say is: If you can't get excited for the possibilities this year I'm not sure you want to get excited at all. IMO this is our best roster for the last 8 years.
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  4. Mark87

    Mark87 Carpe Diem Admin

    +2,001 / 0
    Yes god forbid we are not all wearing our green and gold undies and singing the praises of the pack regardless. :rolleyes: Go to our predict the record section and almost everybody here is 10-6 or 11-5. We prefer to talk middle of the road scenarios rather than blatant rah rah we are going 16-0, that doesn't make anyone less the fan.

    GB can easily win a SB but they could go 7-9, every scenario is on the table. If someone wants to start a " why we will go 16-0" thread go for it.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  5. TW

    TW Moderator

    +1,281 / 14
    My undies are black boxer briefs. My opinion is that 10-6 is not a winning season, it's below expectations for the team we've had for the last several years. I totally understand what Mark is saying. Most of us do see it in the 10 to 12 win season, because that's the level that they're coached by McCarthy. They're better than most, and can be blown out by a few. Ironic that it happens that way, year after year? I think not! I think it's a problem when the Packers play a team that has nearly as much talent as we do. We get out-coached.

    I wish there was some way to candy coat it, but with the tremendous two plus decades we've had with Favre and Rodgers ending in only two Lombardi Trophies is not enough. If it was four, maybe five, I'd be thinking; "That's about right!"

    A long time ago, I had the opportunity of working with a head coach who told me that talented players never account for more than 60% of a team's capability of winning games, and it's usually around 50%. The rest, he said, was knowing what your players can do on the field, coach to their skills, and make sure the other team cannot play the game to fit their own skills. You need to disrupt their plans, and make them come to you. He was right. I turned it into my coaching philosophy, and put the onus on myself and my coaches shoulders, and said it was our job to get them ready, no matter who they were playing. It worked. Not one losing season.

    McCarthy, as good as he is in many ways, lacks that commit to his coaches being accountable for what happens on the field. It's them, not the players, who need to up their game. If they up theirs, the players will buy in, and give everything they've got to up theirs too, and that's when you win championships.
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  6. eyecatcher

    eyecatcher Member

    +954 / 5
    No one is saying you ave to where Green and Gold undies, but it is difficult to please some of the posters. No matter what happens it isn't enough. TT did what we have all been asking him to do for years. Fill some gaps with Free Agency. Last year many lamented Sitton being released but the O-line didn't fall off and were probably better last year than the year before. This year we lost a couple more guys and everyone is in a panic about it. The OL is still one of the best in the NFL despite those losses and they must be pretty confident in the back-ups because the way TT spent in FA this year there were plenty of options to sign OL players yet they chose not to.
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  7. Dubz41

    Dubz41 Member

    +1,025 / 6
    Seriously? Because I point out some of the reasons and changes we've seen this year and believe we have seen a fundamental change in TTs approach- now I'm wearing green and gold undies? Well they should go good with my green and gold glasses then (been accused of that too) Sorry, I'm not the complaining type (except MMs play calling at crucial moments). I was die hard through all of the Gory Years and remain calm heading into most years, but we've seen a change in the approach. We've witnessed TT doing what people have been imploring him to do for years, but if we show enthusiasm we get labeled. Never said we were going 16-0. What do you mean "We prefer to talk middle of the road scenarios" ? I consider most of my posts thoughtful opinions, I try to give reasons for my viewpoints. I'll admit I am closer to green and gold undies than I am to the 'sky is falling' end of the spectrum. I just made two main points in my previous posts: 1- Dom Capers has no excuses this year. 2- Yes, I am excited about the possibilities this year. (I'm a whitey tighty guy FWIW)
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  8. Backthepack4ever

    Backthepack4ever Member

    +224 / 0
    Great post Dubz41!!

    wow a lot of good talking points on here.

    It start with TW post. I agree with what you say about coaching and it plays a huge part in a teams success. A coach has to get the most out of his players and put them in the best position to be successful. Its a hard job. Now I don't know what you have coached but Nnt having 1 losing season is a great achievement, no doubt, but the same can be said of Macs teams over the years. He is turning out winning seasons, but in this thread that is not good enough. I agree I want more world titles also, but has a fellow coach that is a hard thing to do over and over.

    I love what Dubz pointed out and I by no means take it as being a super homer. He simply pointed out that TT has done things we all have wanted him to do for a long time. He brings in these FA, signs our own and has had some solid talent in the draft, and fans still find things to nitpick about. Did anyone see those unbeatable Pats last night take it on the chin. the team and org that everyone wants to model also has holes. And please don't give them a pass like they were last night about guys getting hurt. We packer fans all know the feeling there. I know its week 1 and the pats will be in the mix but the Chiefs exposed them and showed ways to beat them.

    IMHO TT has given us the talent to compete with anyone. This roster is loaded. As a GM isn't that your job? Give the staff the talent to compete? Now its up to the coaches and players to get it done. I have faith in this staff and group this year. I hope everyone enjoys the games sunday, I know I will
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