Capers must go!

The key to winning in the NFL is to constantly reinvent yourself, just like companies need to do in the every day world. If you don't, you do become stagnant, and people move past you.

We are at that point in GB. The team is stagnant, and McCarthy is complacent, because his won/lost record is excellent. The problem is, he's had the horses to do much much better.

The Patriots are constantly reinventing themselves, and creating new ways to generate offense, and play defense. They do it by recycling players near the end of their career, who are looking for a Super Bowl ring. They have a good shot at getting one in New England.

In GB, it's like you guys are saying, a carbon copy of the year before. Then there's injuries. Something is obviously wrong in our conditioning. You don't remain one of the worst year after year, unless there's a problem. But, what works out well for the coaches is that they point at those injuries as being the reason they ended up failing, and get another pass until next year, year after year.

The "family thing" in GB is great. But, it's still a business. Players leave for more money, year after year. But none of our coaches are even being interviewed for a step up with another team? Why? McCarthy, loyal as he is, keeps the coaches, because they're "family."

According to most experts, if you go at it properly, you can rebuild a defense in less than 3 years. The problem is, if it isn't done soon, we're going to lose Nelson and Rodgers, and it won't make one bit of difference.
 
Not sure I can add much that hasn't been covered. I will say the defensive line is still crap. Once Daniels went out they were pushed around at times and played flat. That front 7 vs a top tier offense isn't up to par. The strange thing to me is Rodgers still goes goofy vs high pressure wacky(

Once they started hitting him, he basically lost it and forced things. Like Mark said it's on video so other teams will be trying to do that from now on.


TW to turn a defense depends on the pieces you have. GB could draft 3-4 and sign 2-3 FA and turn that scheme to a 4-3 in one off season fairly easy.
 
During Dom Capers reign the defense got over TWICE the number of picks in the top three rounds than the offense. We blame TT for bad picks, yet players move elsewhere and excel as TW points out.

not defending capers, but i still blame ted thompson for bad picks on defense. casey hayward is a rare exception. very few players have left green bay and done better elsewhere. most recent example: jayrone elliott lasted about a week with the cowboys. datone jones couldn't cut it in minnesota. we'll have to see how gunter does with carolina. but seriously name any defensive player other than hayward who left the packers in free agency and did well on another team. even house couldn't cut it with the jaguars. he did okay the first year and then was only a starter for four games in his second year. and then we brought him back this year because even though he wasn't good enough to start for the jags, he was better than any corner we had on the roster.
 
Last edited:
not defending capers, but i still blame ted thompson for bad picks on defense. casey hayward is a rare exception. very few players have left green bay and done better elsewhere. most recent example: jayrone elliott lasted about a week with the cowboys. datone jones couldn't cut it in minnesota. we'll have to see how gunter does with carolina. but seriously name any defensive player other than hayward who left the packers in free agency and did well on another team. even house couldn't cut it with the jaguars. he did okay the first year and then was only a starter for four games in his second year. and then we brought him back year because even though he wasn't good enough to start for the jags, he was better than any corner we had on the roster.

There's something to what realitybytes said. Many don't do as well as they did in Green Bay. At least we don't perceive them as doing as well. Then again, maybe the hype about how good they were in Green Bay was totally overstated, and they weren't the talent we were led to believe? Poor draft picks?

Although this is an old list, from the off season 2015, I thought it was interesting. We can say good/not good on a lot of these guys, but unless we really followed these other teams, our evaluations might be a tad off. With all the players in the NFL, most people really only have a fairly consistent grasp on the players on their own team, and some of the skill players, and pro bowl types on other teams. There's just too much to digest.

Good or bad, here's the list from 2015.

Quarterback: Matt Flynn, New England Patriots
Backup: Matt Hasselbeck, Indianapolis Colts
Running back: DuJuan Harris, Minnesota Vikings
Backup: Michael Hill, Washington Redskins
Wide receiver: Greg Jennings, Miami Dolphins; Jarrett Boykin, Carolina Panthers
Backup: Jeremy Ross, Detroit Lions
Tight end: Brandon Bostick, Minnesota Vikings
Backup: Ryan Taylor, Kansas City Chiefs; Jake Stoneburner, Miami Dolphins
Offensive line: Derek Sherrod, Kansas City Chiefs; Marshall Newhouse, New York Giants; Evan Dietrich-Smith, Tampa Bay Buccaneers; Allen Barbre, Philadelphia Eagles; Breno Giacomini; New York Jets
Backup: Nick McDonald, Cleveland Browns
Defensive line: Colin Cole, Carolina Panthers; C.J. Wilson, Oakland Raiders; Jerel Worthy, Kansas City Chiefs
Backup: Lawrence Guy, Baltimore Ravens
Outside linebacker: Erik Walden, Indianapolis Colts; Frank Zombo, Kansas City Chiefs
Backup: Dezman Moses, Kansas City Chiefs
Inside linebacker: A.J. Hawk, Cincinnati Bengals; Danny Lansanah, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Backup: Desmond Bishop, San Francisco 49ers; Brad Jones, Philadelphia Eagles; Jamari Lattimore, New York Jets
Cornerback: Tramon Williams, Cleveland Browns; Davon House, Jacksonville Jaguars
Backup: Jumal Rolle, Houston Texans; Will Blackmon, Seattle Seahawks
Safety: Charles Woodson, Oakland Raiders; Brandian Ross, Oakland Raiders
Backup: Josh Gordy, New York Giants
Kicker: Giorgio Tavecchio, Oakland Raiders
Punter: Jon Ryan, Seattle Seahawks
Long snapper: J.J. Jansen, Carolina Panthers
 
Good or bad, here's the list from 2015.

Quarterback: Matt Flynn, New England Patriots
Backup: Matt Hasselbeck, Indianapolis Colts
Running back: DuJuan Harris, Minnesota Vikings
Backup: Michael Hill, Washington Redskins
Wide receiver: Greg Jennings, Miami Dolphins; Jarrett Boykin, Carolina Panthers
Backup: Jeremy Ross, Detroit Lions
Tight end: Brandon Bostick, Minnesota Vikings
Backup: Ryan Taylor, Kansas City Chiefs; Jake Stoneburner, Miami Dolphins
Offensive line: Derek Sherrod, Kansas City Chiefs; Marshall Newhouse, New York Giants; Evan Dietrich-Smith, Tampa Bay Buccaneers; Allen Barbre, Philadelphia Eagles; Breno Giacomini; New York Jets
Backup: Nick McDonald, Cleveland Browns

Defensive line: Colin Cole, Carolina Panthers; C.J. Wilson, Oakland Raiders; Jerel Worthy, Kansas City Chiefs
Backup: Lawrence Guy, Baltimore Ravens
Outside linebacker: Erik Walden, Indianapolis Colts; Frank Zombo, Kansas City Chiefs
Backup: Dezman Moses, Kansas City Chiefs
Inside linebacker: A.J. Hawk, Cincinnati Bengals; Danny Lansanah, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Backup: Desmond Bishop, San Francisco 49ers; Brad Jones, Philadelphia Eagles; Jamari Lattimore, New York Jets
Cornerback: Tramon Williams, Cleveland Browns; Davon House, Jacksonville Jaguars
Backup: Jumal Rolle, Houston Texans; Will Blackmon, Seattle Seahawks
Safety: Charles Woodson, Oakland Raiders; Brandian Ross, Oakland Raiders
Backup: Josh Gordy, New York Giants
Kicker: Giorgio Tavecchio, Oakland Raiders
Punter: Jon Ryan, Seattle Seahawks
Long snapper: J.J. Jansen, Carolina Panthers

that's quite the list. but let's keep it to defensive players who were actually drafted by ted thompson.

Defensive line: C.J. Wilson, Oakland Raiders; Jerel Worthy, Kansas City Chiefs
Backup: Lawrence Guy, Baltimore Ravens
Inside linebacker: A.J. Hawk, Cincinnati Bengals;
Backup: Desmond Bishop, San Francisco 49ers; Brad Jones, Philadelphia Eagles;
Cornerback: Davon House, Jacksonville Jaguars
Backup: Will Blackmon, Seattle Seahawks

of those players, which ones went on to have good careers elsewhere?

cj wilson had one decent year with oakland immediately after he left us. he spen the next three years on three different teams, starting two games over three seasons.

jerel worthy has not started a single game for any team other than the packers. he played in 15 games for the bills over two seasons and had a total of 5 tackles and 7 assists.

lawrence guy was drafted by us in the seventh round in 2011. he didn't make the team. in 2012 he was picked up by the colts where he played in 11 games over two seasons. he didn't do much there or with the chargers who also had him for two seasons. in 2014 he signed on with the ravens, where he had his best two seasons in 2015 and 2016 - five years after he was drafted.

aj hawk had his best years with the packers and was pretty much a spent force when he went to the bengals.

desmond bishop had a total of seven tackles over three seasons with three different teams after leaving the packers.

brad jones played in seven games for the eagles (no starts) and had five tackles after leaving the packers.

davon house had one good season with jacksonville after leaving the packers, starting 15 games and garnering 23 passes defended and four interceptions. the following season, he was beat out by a rookie and started only four games with zero passes defended and zero interceptions.

will blackmon did almost nothing in his two years with the giants. over the next two years with the jaguars, he saw a little more action, but was not really impressive. the redskins were finally able to get something out of him five years after he played for us.
 
Another thing that bugs the crap out of me about Capers: he sits up in the box every game, separated from his charges. How well can you read the emotion of the game from up there? What about the human element of coaching? Get down on the field with your players. If you need the peace and quiet of a private booth to call your defense, maybe your defense is too complicated.
 
Another thing that bugs the crap out of me about Capers: he sits up in the box every game, separated from his charges. How well can you read the emotion of the game from up there? What about the human element of coaching? Get down on the field with your players. If you need the peace and quiet of a private booth to call your defense, maybe your defense is too complicated.
I prefer to run the defense from the box... I can see tendencies in formation and adjustments from the OC much quicker than on the sideline. Coordinating an offense or defense is a chess match with the man on the other side doing the same thing, Also there is no peace and quiet up top as you're constantly on the headset even when the offense is on the field your calling down adjustments between possessions.
 
I agree with both of you. I want him on the sideline, and in the booth too. I know that doesn't make sense, but it does. For some reason, Capers does not have a defensive coach on the sideline who is a "take charge guy," since he's in the booth. It's like they're all in their own little bubble. On offense, there's no problem, because they're on the field.

He needs a sideline Lieutenant.
 
It's whatever a coordinator is comfortable with. Some coach's love being on the sidelines but the best DC I played for were up top. Kind of curious off topic the Badgers PC was a great in the box OC under BB and does just as well calling plays now on the sideline, kind of rare.
 
Jim Leonhard is on the sidelines with the Badgers. There was a point in time where he wasn't certain whether he'd be on the field, or in the booth. He must have people up there he can rely on.

I think he made a good choice, with him being the new coordinator. It could change down the road, but for now, being there is probably the best choice.
 
Back
Top