The Sunset Years Of Aaron Rodgers

[FlaPack]

Never heard all of that before, other than AR not being a world-beater early on. Nice that Mike was able to help, but I'd never heard that was his reason for being brought in.

Never heard that either. But let's remember Rodgers was a Top 5 talent. No QB is nfl ready day 1. It's not like McCarthy had a resume as a QB savant

 

[oakleaf]

Never heard that either. But let's remember Rodgers was a Top 5 talent. No QB is nfl ready day 1. It's not like McCarthy had a resume as a QB savant

Actually, prior to coming to Green Bay in 2006, McCarthy was known for his innovative offensive ideas and his experience in developing young quarterbacks. He worked with the development of Aaron Brooks, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Flynn, Marc Bulger, Rich Gannon and Elvis Grbac; worked with Joe Montana, Jeff Blake, Steve Bono, Dave Krieg and Brett Favre. The Packers website said that, "General Manager Ted Thompson heavily weighed McCarthy’s track record with quarterbacks when he hired him the following year, knowing that since the post-Favre era was inevitable, the right tutelage at the game’s most important position would be key to a smooth and successful transition."

 

[FlaPack]

I​

Actually, prior to coming to Green Bay in 2006, McCarthy was known for his innovative offensive ideas and his experience in developing young quarterbacks. He worked with the development of Aaron Brooks, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Flynn, Marc Bulger, Rich Gannon and Elvis Grbac; worked with Joe Montana, Jeff Blake, Steve Bono, Dave Krieg and Brett Favre. The Packers website said that, "General Manager Ted Thompson heavily weighed McCarthy’s track record with quarterbacks when he hired him the following year, knowing that since the post-Favre era was inevitable, the right tutelage at the game’s most important position would be key to a smooth and successful transition."

Of those qbs listed it's not like A HOF list. I don't think he helped Joe Montana. Hasselbeck developed under Holmgren Gannon did not come into his own until Gruden.Blake was a bust. Dave Kreig? Yeah he was at kc with McCarthy for one season after 11 in Seattle. Don't think he developed him Bulger was in New Orleans in off season and practice squad for less than a season. Innovative offense? He gets his share of agnst around here for that.

 

[oakleaf]

I​

Of those qbs listed it's not like A HOF list. I don't think he helped Joe Montana. Hasselbeck developed under Holmgren Gannon did not come into his own until Gruden.Blake was a bust. Dave Kreig? Yeah he was at kc with McCarthy for one season after 11 in Seattle. Don't think he developed him Bulger was in New Orleans in off season and practice squad for less than a season. Innovative offense? He gets his share of agnst around here for that.

Yes, I was careful to use the word "experienced" rather than "success". (Although Delhomme and Hasselbeck and now certainly Rodgers can be considered successes.) TT knew he had a young QB needing development and although McCarthy was no slam dunk to get the job he certainly had experience working with and developing QB's.

As far as innovative, McCarthy's scheme provides packaged plays and gives WRs the option to change their routes based on coverage, drilling Rodgers to read the modern shifting defenses to ensure Rodgers quickly sees their adjustments in real time. This greatly reduces plays because it gives one play multiple concepts. However, this offensive style totally requires "being on the same page" with WRs and is why it takes a while for the QB to gel with the WR... not because Rodgers doesn't like someone! I believe McCarthy's offensive scheme accounts for Janis' slow development and Adams' setback, which accounts for fans angst. With Jordy back and continued development of younger WRs, the fans will be happy again.

 

[FlaPack]

Yes, I was careful to use the word "experienced" rather than "success". (Although Delhomme and Hasselbeck and now certainly Rodgers can be considered successes.) TT knew he had a young QB needing development and although McCarthy was no slam dunk to get the job he certainly had experience working with and developing QB's.

As far as innovative, McCarthy's scheme provides packaged plays and gives WRs the option to change their routes based on coverage, drilling Rodgers to read the modern shifting defenses to ensure Rodgers quickly sees their adjustments in real time. This greatly reduces plays because it gives one play multiple concepts. However, this offensive style totally requires "being on the same page" with WRs and is why it takes a while for the QB to gel with the WR... not because Rodgers doesn't like someone! I believe McCarthy's offensive scheme accounts for Janis' slow development and Adams' setback, which accounts for fans angst. With Jordy back and continued development of younger WRs, the fans will be happy again.

Well I guess we have a different definition of development. Holmgren developed Hasselbeck. Jake D was only with McCarthy 2 years in NOLA. Rodgers is his star on the resume. Unless this team wins a Lombardi fans won't be happy

 

[salmar80]

Of those qbs listed it's not like A HOF list. I don't think he helped Joe Montana. Hasselbeck developed under Holmgren Gannon did not come into his own until Gruden.Blake was a bust. Dave Kreig? Yeah he was at kc with McCarthy for one season after 11 in Seattle. Don't think he developed him Bulger was in New Orleans in off season and practice squad for less than a season. Innovative offense? He gets his share of agnst around here for that.​

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Packinatl, I think it's fair to (try) to argue, MM isn't, in fact, a QB guru.

You can go back through the guys he has coached and find ways to emphasize the failures and either to say someone's success wasn't his doing or that they didn't develop enough. If you choose to hate a coach, you can ALWAYS argue good players made him, he didn't make players good.

But there's plenty of evidence that he did/has a reputation for being great as a QB coach.

Here's a long article on MM's influence on Arod, also touching on the innovation aspect: http://grantland.com/features/aaron...green-bay-packers-new-age-west-coast-offense/

"McCarthy may be the latest QB guru". Re-posted Press-Gazette article from 2008: http://www.officialbrettfavre.com/news/story_731ac46946cb/

"Education of a Quarterback" from NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/s...cation-of-the-packers-aaron-rodgers.html?_r=1

MM's rep coaching QBs was noted when he was hired. From JSOnline's Jan 11 2006 "Packers set to hire Mike McCarthy as new head coach" -story:

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Still, Thompson liked the idea that McCarthy, who came to Green Bay after Schottenheimer and the Chiefs parted ways after the '98 season, had worked with Brett Favre. During his stay with the Packers, McCarthy had a huge influence on then backup quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, who went on to play in Seattle, where Thompson served as director of player personnel.

Hasselbeck has spoken many times about McCarthy's off-season "quarterback schools" that stress fundamentals and credited the coach with helping him develop into an NFL quarterback. Though it is believed McCarthy was not hired entirely to appease Favre, his former pupil, there's no question that Thompson viewed his choice for the job as someone who wouldn't be afraid to coach the future Hall of Famer if he comes back.

Favre had one of his worst seasons under McCarthy in '99, but the team was in transition after the departure of coach Mike Holmgren and Favre suffered a debilitating thumb injury that affected his play most of the year.
"I think that's going to be big in getting Brett to come back," running back Tony Fisher said of McCarthy's prior relationship with Favre. "We need him. I'd hate to see Brett go out on a year like we just had. That could be really, really big."

McCarthy also served as offensive coordinator in New Orleans, where he took on the task of trying to make Aaron Brooks into a successful quarterback. McCarthy had mixed results, but those familiar with the situation said he was the one person who was willing to go toe-to-toe with the sensitive Brooks and tell him what he was doing wrong.
McCarthy left New Orleans because he felt he was no longer getting the support he needed to coach Brooks and needed a change of scenery. This past season, he was offensive coordinator for the talentless San Francisco 49ers and their No. 1 pick, quarterback Alex Smith.

Building through the draft

One of the things that impressed the Packers was that McCarthy wanted to get Smith ready to play as soon as possible rather than win a few meaningless games with veteran Tim Rattay. Thompson badly wants someone who will develop young players and embrace his policy of building through the draft. McCarthy is expected to recruit a staff that specializes in teaching, similar to the philosophy defensive coordinator Jim Bates follows.

 

[FlaPack]

​

Packinatl, I think it's fair to (try) to argue, MM isn't, in fact, a QB guru.

You can go back through the guys he has coached and find ways to emphasize the failures and either to say someone's success wasn't his doing or that they didn't develop enough. If you choose to hate a coach, you can ALWAYS argue good players made him, he didn't make players good.

But there's plenty of evidence that he did/has a reputation for being great as a QB coach.

Here's a long article on MM's influence on Arod, also touching on the innovation aspect: http://grantland.com/features/aaron...green-bay-packers-new-age-west-coast-offense/

"McCarthy may be the latest QB guru". Re-posted Press-Gazette article from 2008: http://www.officialbrettfavre.com/news/story_731ac46946cb/

"Education of a Quarterback" from NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/s...cation-of-the-packers-aaron-rodgers.html?_r=1

MM's rep coaching QBs was noted when he was hired. From JSOnline's Jan 11 2006 "Packers set to hire Mike McCarthy as new head coach" -story:

Actually I have supported McCarthy more than most here. But fact is he really only developed Aaron Rodgers and props for that. Did he work with many qbs yes but again none of the guys listed were special and all were also influenced by others. Is he good as a QB coach yes but let's not put him on a pedastal

 

[salmar80]

Actually I have supported McCarthy more than most here. But fact is he really only developed Aaron Rodgers and props for that. Did he work with many qbs yes but again none of the guys listed were special and all were also influenced by others. Is he good as a QB coach yes but let's not put him on a pedastal

I guess no pedestal, but recognition of good/great work MM's done would be fine with me.

I disagree with the rest.

ALL players are influenced by more than one coach. MM doesn't lock QBs in his private lair and bend them to his will . He didn't even develop Arod all by himself, even though this QB school is his creation. Rodgers will also thank others in his HoF speech. Does that diminish MM's reputation or impact? I don't think so.

Out of the QBs I've followed even a bit, none of Brooks, Delhomme, Hasselbeck, Flynn, Bulger or Gannon were ANYWHERE near Rodgers' talent level. Yet MM had an impact on them having careers in this league. Hasselbeck outright said so. Flynn's talent was pumped to the max in GB, obviously. I can try to find quotes from the others, but I've got a game review I've gotta work on.

I'd argue there doesn't exist a Mr. Miyagi of QBs. If there was, he'd probably have a QB monastery high atop a mountain in the Rockies. He'd get paid well above HC salary by all NFL teams, who'd send all their young QBs there to learn how to wax on, wax off .

 

[Mark87]

Hasselbeck outright said so.

Incorrect Matt played in Green Bay until 2000, MM came in 2006. They never crossed paths that I am aware of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Hasselbeck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCarthy_(American_football)

Like it .. Hate it the Biggest factor in Aarons development was sitting behind a pro bowl QB for 3 yrs and learning the game. NFL FB is 3 times faster than college and he was able to have the game slow way way down before starting.

 

[GBP4EVER]

Incorrect Matt played in Green Bay until 2000, MM came in 2006. They never crossed paths that I am aware of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Hasselbeck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCarthy_(American_football)

Like it .. Hate it the Biggest factor in Aarons development was sitting behind a pro bowl QB for 3 yrs and learning the game. NFL FB is 3 times faster than college and he was able to have the game slow way way down before starting.

Would McCarthy have not coached Hasselbeck in 1999?