Ch-ch-ch-changes (That Should Happen)

Dubz41

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#2
Ouch! Presents a very good argument. Hasn't done a bad job, just kind of a choke job. Someone else needs to make the call down the stretch, play to win!
 

GBP4EVER

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#3
Been saying for years every team nows Capers scheme it's 25 years old and that his game plan is almost always the same so teams know how to beat it
 

Budman

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#4
Nothing substantial will change. The media blitz of excuses has now begun. We are now inundated with "how great this team will be next year because all the injured players will be back". McCarthy seemed defensive in his season ending presser. No fear or urgency when it comes to his job. Murphy, in an article, states the packers are still on the right track. MM to take over play calling , no more changes on that front, etc.
 

Packinatl

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#5
You can make all the coaching changes you want. But until this team gets an influx of talent especially on the defensive end not much will change. That’s not on McCarthy. That’s not on Capers. That’s on Ted Thompson.

Ask yourself honestly how many play makers do we have on defense? In reality one. #52. There are some decent prices but nobody who puts fear in an OC to game plan around. Remer back to the last SB team. Collins. Matthews. Woodson. Playmaker.

On offense sure we have #12 but you saw what we have at wr. No separation. Can’t get off press coverage and poor routes. Is some of that coaching yes but #87 opened up the field it showed how pedestrian we were at times. The depth at OL was a glaring issue. TE? Not even going to start. RB? Lacy has been discussed on another thread.

It takes talent to win a SB but also takes some luck. And then there’s coaching. Did Shaun Payton get stupid the last couple of years? No. Is Bill OBrien a bad coach? Hell no. Is Ron Rivera a genius? No. My point here is talent. Look at the team speed Carolina and Arizona and even Pittsburgh have on defense. It makes a difference. Are there times I shake my head at some coaching decisions hell yes. But I get more angry when I see missed tackles. Dropped passes and missed throws.
 

Mark87

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#6
You can make all the coaching changes you want. But until this team gets an influx of talent especially on the defensive end not much will change. That’s not on McCarthy. That’s not on Capers. That’s on Ted Thompson.

Ask yourself honestly how many play makers do we have on defense? In reality one. #52. There are some decent prices but nobody who puts fear in an OC to game plan around. Remer back to the last SB team. Collins. Matthews. Woodson. Playmaker.

On offense sure we have #12 but you saw what we have at wr. No separation. Can’t get off press coverage and poor routes. Is some of that coaching yes but #87 opened up the field it showed how pedestrian we were at times. The depth at OL was a glaring issue. TE? Not even going to start. RB? Lacy has been discussed on another thread.

It takes talent to win a SB but also takes some luck. And then there’s coaching. Did Shaun Payton get stupid the last couple of years? No. Is Bill OBrien a bad coach? Hell no. Is Ron Rivera a genius? No. My point here is talent. Look at the team speed Carolina and Arizona and even Pittsburgh have on defense. It makes a difference. Are there times I shake my head at some coaching decisions hell yes. But I get more angry when I see missed tackles. Dropped passes and missed throws.
You've been on this soap box for 3 years... and your argument makes sense to a point. GB doesn't have great talent in regards to depth. Let's just give you that point.

However the top 24/25 on the roster are comparable to any team in the league and 3 of those players could be considered elite. With that said both offensively and defensively we have to find an x factor.

Green bay defense was ranked 18th in total yards.... giving up 354.8 yards per game. Pass defense is ranked 27th per game and rushing 12th. Scoring defense was ranked 21st.

So no top 10 in the stats with an improvement against the run and a very poor pass defense.

Let's add in SNAFU after SNAFU on defense from not having the correct defense on the backside or just really poor calls vs teams that used man beaters or crossing routes to slice and dice his man over zones and combo covers.

While your "talent " argument has some validity this isn't college FB, everyone else is playing with that kind of talent pool. GB has allowed it's self to be lulled into the belief that having continuity in scheme or this years big revaluation to shorten and simplify the play calls will bring gold ?:rolleyes:rofl(

Yes better talent helps but we have salary cap issues and other limiting factors. A very good DC knows how to scheme to his teams strength and make up for those limitations.

The Pitt 3/4 got us a SB ...great and dandy but at some point you have to move on schematically. That time is now.
 

Scoremore12

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#7
I have to agree. There is enough talent on this team to win a super bowl. Problem is the same problems, mistakes, etc happen every year. Players come and go, but we have the same coaching staff.....same issues..... thats on the coaching, no doubt in my mind. Both our offense and defense is stale and outdated, we need coaches in here who will bring fresh ideas, schemes, plays, etc. It will never change with the current staff.

Can we upgrade talent some,,, sure can, but as it stands now...we have good enough talent across the board to get it done. TE is the 1 position that has room for upgrades...we have Richard Rodgers who has good hands, but is slower than a turtle....we could use that big tall TE who can run and take pressure off the WR's. OL could use probly 2 quality OTs for depth. ILB also could use some backups.....but other than TE, I dont see any glaring "needs", just spots to upgrade some depth here and there. Coaching is the biggest problem, easy on this team.


You've been on this soap box for 3 years... and your argument makes sense to a point. GB doesn't have great talent in regards to depth. Let's just give you that point.

However the top 24/25 on the roster are comparable to any team in the league and 3 of those players could be considered elite. With that said both offensively and defensively we have to find an x factor.

Green bay defense was ranked 18th in total yards.... giving up 354.8 yards per game. Pass defense is ranked 27th per game and rushing 12th. Scoring defense was ranked 21st.

So no top 10 in the stats with an improvement against the run and a very poor pass defense.

Let's add in SNAFU after SNAFU on defense from not having the correct defense on the backside or just really poor calls vs teams that used man beaters or crossing routes to slice and dice his man over zones and combo covers.

While your "talent " argument has some validity this isn't college FB, everyone else is playing with that kind of talent pool. GB has allowed it's self to be lulled into the belief that having continuity in scheme or this years big revaluation to shorten and simplify the play calls will bring gold ?:rolleyes:rofl(

Yes better talent helps but we have salary cap issues and other limiting factors. A very good DC knows how to scheme to his teams strength and make up for those limitations.

The Pitt 3/4 got us a SB ...great and dandy but at some point you have to move on schematically. That time is now.
 

Cheesedog

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#8
Nothing substantial will change. The media blitz of excuses has now begun. We are now inundated with "how great this team will be next year because all the injured players will be back". McCarthy seemed defensive in his season ending presser. No fear or urgency when it comes to his job. Murphy, in an article, states the packers are still on the right track. MM to take over play calling , no more changes on that front, etc.
GB has a coaching staff + talent good enough to get into the playoffs. Unfortunately they don't have a coaching staff + talent to contend for a SB yet. Take everything everyone has said, add it together, and there we go. Especially what Mark said about needing some X factor... All the teams left contending for the SB have that X factor, be it coaching, game planning, players etc..

Everyone needs to do better from TT on down to get to the big game again... I'm cynical it happens. But it could with the right moves/changes.
 

Packinatl

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#9
Is the first 22 / 24 good enough yes. But no team goes rhru a season not dinged up and that’s where depth and quality depth becomes an issue. Sure we have a cap but so did Arizona and they added vet depth. If you want UDFA guys to count on to win as depth fine but that does not cut it.

Do players come and go? Sure. But the core has been the same the last few years. Raji Burnett matthews shields. On offense tge ol is the same. Qb is. We never replaced Collins. Never replaced Woodson on AND off the field. Draft and develop is fine when you hit on picks but we missed on too many that woukd have helped depth.

As to salary cap we are how much under? Be aggressive like Seattle. Lynch even Harvin. Sure he was a one year then out but take chances. But no we have Jake Ryan playing in space. I’m not advocating overpaying tier 1 free agents. But fill holes and fill the depth
 

Scoremore12

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#10
GB has a coaching staff + talent good enough to get into the playoffs. Unfortunately they don't have a coaching staff + talent to contend for a SB yet. Take everything everyone has said, add it together, and there we go. Especially what Mark said about needing some X factor... All the teams left contending for the SB have that X factor, be it coaching, game planning, players etc..

Everyone needs to do better from TT on down to get to the big game again... I'm cynical it happens. But it could with the right moves/changes.

Packers have the talent on the team to get to the super bowl, but do not have the coaching staff to get them there. We will see more of the same in the future as long as this current staff is in GB.
 
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